Tropical fish

[Waxbillman]

hello all

this is a new hobby for me, i am starting up with tropical fish, i have always wanted some, i decided to get some. This friday i am going to get a 2ft tank, the fish i will be definately keeping will be a small shoul of Neon tetra, i have always liked this bright little fish. i'm not not sure if i am keeping anything else in the tank yet.

Matthew

[kenny]

hi matt
its funny but they were one of the first fish i started with,i think you can still buy them in half dozens as they are sold cheaper that way,if you get some guppys aswell you will soon find that they do breed quite freely,just dont be tempted to fill the tank up with all sorts of different kinds ,as you will possibly know you are limited to the amount of fish to the size of the tank,its only a couple of years since i got rid of mine and i waited till my kissing gouramis passed away before i sold my tank and they lived for 6 years.its a great hobby matt you will love it and it is someyhing to do in a winter,and its better than watching the telly mate

ken

[Waxbillman]

definately is.

yes i am intent on using the same rule as thumb as i do with birds in aviaries.

not too many species, not too many birds, or in this case birds.

i shall probabily just have 1 to 3 species in there, depends what i see. but certainly a shoul of about 12 neon tetras. and then a small shoul about 6 of another species.

Matthew

[kenny]

hi matt
dont be tempted to get a nice bright coloured shoal of tiger barbs or they will strip the fins of anything in site.and remember only one fighting fish per tank and a nice corydorus to clean up the crap at the bottom

ken

[Waxbillman]

don't worry Ken, i will get peaceful varieties. have you got anymore information on Corydorus? i think they are those catfish are they, if so i think Harlington near me sell them. is it just an old wives tale that they eat up all the crap?

Matthew

[kenny]

hi matt
they come in quite a few varieties there is a leapord one that is very nice and they are peacful so you can keep a couple without them fighting,they dont need any special food but you can buy catfish pellets that sink to the bottom of the tank but the majority of the time they just mooch about the bottom feeding on leftover stuff they dont clear up all of the stuff but they do contribute heavily as they primarely bottom feeders as there mouths are on the under side .obviously the more you have the more stuff they clean up .but there are bronze ones also and even albino ones and the good thing is corys dont grow that big unlike the plecs that grow to massive proportions despite the size of the tank so dont be fooled by the size of the youngsters as some of them grow to a foot long but corys stay about 3 ins long tops.unless you get a drawf plec.i could go on with this forever though.anything else you are stuck with mate just let me know and i will see if i can help

ken

[chris]

Hi Matthew,

for algae control try and get a pair of ottocinclus, they're a type of sucker mouthed catfish, and only grow to an inch in length and they're the mutt's nuts when it comes to eating algae.

for bottom feeders try a few kuli loaches, they look like a small eel type fish with bands, reaching 4 inches in length and are very peacefull.

tetras will occupy the middle of the tank, and a male siamese fighter either on his own or with at least 3 female fighters will occupy the upper area of the tank. since fighters are labrynth fishes they breath air from the surface and have little to no impact on the O2 concentration in the water, so they don't apply to the 3 inches of fish to the gallon of well airiated water rule i told you about.

Chris;-)

[Waxbillman]

thanks for the advice you two.

i'll let you know what i buy tomorrow (set up wise, obviously fish will come at a later date) roughly how many can i have to a 2ft long tank? i would rather understock the tank than anything else.

i would of loved some tiger barbs but they are known as 'tail nippers', that was another fish on my hit list. i looked the name up and thats the ones i could remember that my Auntie and Uncle has years back

Matthew

[chris]

Hi Matthew,

it depends on how many gallons the tank is, so that will depend on whether you get a standard 2'x1'x1' or if you go for a deeper one 2x1 x18", or better stil one that is about 2 foot long, 15 inches back and 18 inches deep although i haven't seen many that size

just tell us what size tank you end up with, i'll work out the litres/gallons and then tell you how many fish you can get in it without overstocking

my only advice on getting the tank is get the biggest you can afford! fishkeeping is very much like birdkeeping, the pond/aviary/cage/tank is NEVER big enough:lol: aviod under gravel filters - they're crap, don't work very well, inhibit plant growth and get easily clogged. the best to opt for would be either a decent sized internal filter (it'll say on the box what size tank they are designed for) fluval are good, Eheim are excellent, both internal and external box filters, i use the power ball model which cost around £40 i think, and can be extended by adding one extra filter cartridges

Chris

[Waxbillman]

thanks for the advice bud

Matthew

[vixen]

Hi Matthew if you are going for tetras in your set up go for cardinal instead of neons, as the cardinal tetra have the color all the way along the body as apposed to just half way with the neons.they are slightly bigger and about a pound difference i have three tanks here 4 ft 3 ft and1 ft.:roll: cant stop at just one:-D :-D
Trudy

[kenny]

hi chris/matt
i started of with a shark filter wich was an undergravel type and they said that it was great but by the time it came to my first water change.the tray was that clogged there was no air bubbles coming out of the top of the filter and i bought a fluval.they are a bit dearer than the others .but you get what you pay for i would use like you said matt the same rule of thumb as you do with your birds mate if you think would they like that or would it be good enough then you cant go far wrong.as you know with your birds if the people in the shop think you are a novice they try and sell you crap

ken

[Strawblady2000]

Sounds great!!

I miss my fish, lol.

We used to have a 300 gallon freshwater (mostly African Ciclids) and a 125 gallon saltwater. Oddly enough, the reef tank was easier to keep clean.

Good luck and keep us posted as to how everything works out!!! Its been a while since we had the freshwater tank...so, most of what we did that I remember has to do with the reef tank.

BUT...I do remember the pleasure of both when it came to just watching them! Replaced the television for a while, lol!

Nikki

[Waxbillman]

great, i will keep everyone posted

if i can get cardinals i will but it depends what they have i am going to about 3 places tomorrow to have a look

Matthew

[Waxbillman]

well its taken me about 3 hours, driving up and down petween pet and aquatic stores, but i have finally bought a tank, its 2ft long, a foot deep and about 16" high. its a good system though theres a section in the far right hand corner where the heater and the filter/pump goes so it does'nt look messy. the light is in-built in the hood, i also bough some volcanic rock to put in and a bell type cave, the substrate i have used is a shiny black stuff, forget what its called but its not bog standard gravel, also bought a nice scenic backing.
hopefull i get water in tonight, as soon as i work out how the hell to put the stuff together.

heres a list of fish i have seem which look pretty nice, obviously i only want about 3 species so need to narrow it down
the species are as follows
Black Neon, white cloud Mountain minnow, Emperor tetra, harlequin tetra, Guppies. blue ram cichlid, panda corydorus and the rummy nosed tetra.

what do you lot think.

Matthew

[chris]

Hi Matthew,

no siamese fighter then:o

all of those fish will get on fine, but steer clear of the guppies - trust me i used to breed the buggers:lol: 1 female will give birth to upto 50 fry every 4 weeks, most of the stock we have are inbred and poor quality which die within a week, they're very susecptable to fungal infections (although wild guppies are one of the hardiest fish you will ever come across). also they prefer a bit of salt in the water and a higher pH, which is the complete opposite of the other fish in your list.

given the tank is 70 litres, that works out to roughly 17.5 gallons. if you have an air pump you can safely keep 3 inches of fish to the gallon, if there is no air pump it is only 2 inches of fish to the gallon. assuming you have an air pump, or venturi on the filter outlet then you can keep 52.5 inches of fish (that doesn't mean one big bugger that won't fit in the tank:lol: )

i would suggest then that you can keep a shaol of 10 neon tetras (1 inch each), 10 black neons (1.5 inch), 5 corydoras panda (2 inches), 5 emperor tetras (2 inches) and 3 blue rams (buterfly cichlids, 2.5 inches)

also, before you get any of those, get some bogwood for the tank, wash it off and leave them to soak in the tank overnight (they float at first). they should release lots of tannins into the water which will mature it more rapidly, lowering the pH slightly to around 6.5 (which is ideal for the fish in your list bar the guppies) and also softening the water which is exactly what you want. the tannins will turn the water an orange/black colour which is pretty much the same as that found in the amazon basin where most of your fish come from, so replicates the natural habitat.

a few java ferns will grow nicely in the lower light conditions created by the tannins, and also java moss will grow nicely. infact java moss can be a nice little earner as mine grows really well and i split it up every now and again to sell back to the fish shop (50p per bunch, and usually 10 bunches), although it does cost around £2 a bag to start with. java moss is also very effective at removing impurities in the water and softening the water which is a bonus for the fish you want.

there is a product called "black water expert" which has a double whammy effect of acting as a plant fertiliser and softening the water/turning it black/dark for the fish. a big bottle costs about £12 but will last ages.

i would start getting the fish once the filter has been running with plants in the tank for one week beforehand. if you get the fish in order of the list i have suggested then you can't really go wrong. Rams can be sensitive little fish and don't always do well in a new setup so will be best to be the last fishes in the tank. also be carefull when buying them, if they are thin, pale in colour, dodgy fins don't touch em as they're probably the cheap crap that die very easily. i think the german bred rams are the best to go for if you can find out where they come from but i will get back to you there.

heres a good place to gt your plants from also:

http://www.java-plants.com/

the 24" discus collection would be ideal given they have the msae requirements as your other fish

http://www.java-plants.com/cart/prod-col.asp

they deliver them and i've only ever heard good news from them so you can't go wrong there

Chris;)

[Waxbillman]

thanks for that Chris.

Guppies are off my list now.

yes i think is still want a siamese fighter, they a very nice

how about this combination 12 neon tetras, 2 of those cat fish, 1 siamese fighter, 6 black neons and 3 cichlid.
as for the bog wood i was told to soak it for a day in a bucket of water, then put it in, also put the plants in after a few days and then start introducing the harder fish after a week?

Matthew

[chris]

HI Matthew,

yes your list would work fine and would also allow for more fish in the future.

as for the bogwood, this is also what i'm told when buying it, however if you soak it overnight in a bucket you lose most of the tannins out of the wood, so it's best to give it a quick wash/scrub, then soak it in the tank to allow the tannins into the tank only, that way you don't lose the bulk down the sink.

get the plants in the tank as soon as you can, there is no time limit where they are concerned. it's best to get the plants in before the fish to allow them to establish, but watch out for snails on the plants as once they're in the tank they're a nightmare to get rid of. if might be worth washing the plants down in salt water before adding them to the tank to remove any snails that are on there.

you can start adding the fish after a week, i would get the tetras first and the siamese fighter and cichlids last. leave about a week or two between getting fish to allow the filter to get used to the increased ammonia produced by the fish

Chris;)

[Waxbillman]

thanks Chris.

what about aquatic frogs have you any experience with them?

Matthew

[chris]

Hi Matthew,

aquatic frogs and neon tetras is much the same as placing gerty the guinea pig in with bob the boa constrictor:lol:

not a good idea, unless you want a few happy fat frogs. other main problem is that most aquatic frogs are labelled incorrectly as african dwarfs or dwarf aquatic frogs when infact they are the type that grow to 6 inches and eat anything small enough to fit into their mouths. the only other things that i would say are safe with your fish would be a few freshwater shrimps (there are various tropical shrimps) and snails, steer well clear of newts, frogs, lobsters and crabs

Chris

[Waxbillman]

:o :lol:

strange, my aunt and uncle and then with fish your years apparently. are well, screw that idea.

Matthew

[kenny]

hi chris
can you still get those turbo snails,i saw a lot when i kept my fish i actually never bought them myself but a lot of people did buy em

ken

[chris]

Hi Kenny,


i've never heard of them mate:| so i have absolutely no idea

i know that the apple snails are still commonly available

Chris;-)

[kenny]

hi chris
they had a kind of bullseye on the shell,which looked a bit like a buttermint humbug

ken:shock:

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Matthew,

Along with the Species Chris mentioned to avoid, Newts, Frogs, Lobsters and Crabs, I will also suggest the following as a no no, Giant Squid, Killer Whale, Great White Shark and Electric Eels amongst others.:shock:

This is to Chris though, I have noticed that you can push your luck with stocking Fish to a certain tank size if you have a large amount of Plants and a good external filter, have you found the same?

Also I don't want to upset anyone after the previous advice given, but I wouldn't suggest the Ram Cichlids as a starter Fish at all, as Chris has already mentioned they are very sensitive to water conditions, for this reason I would suggest that you replace this choice of Fish with something else, maybe the slightly larger (and duller) Keyhole Cichlid?

Ken,

I have a Snail in my Aqarium that has a yellow background colour with black lines that from a swirl, is this the Snail you are talking about?

Paul.:-D

[chris]

Hi Paul,

to be honest i wouldn't know, while my tanks are planted they don't currently have an external filter (although i do have one ready and waiting for when i get a cabinet). also i stick to the 3 inches of fish per gallon rule and have never gone over it so i wouldn't know.

you are correct in that Rams probably aren't the best starter cichlid however i have found that they are very peacefull and have never caused any trouble in my tank while keepign them.

Matthew,

taking into accound that Rams are sensitive fish, you might to better to start with Bolivian Rams instead, these are the same size and have the same requirements, however are far more tolerant of poor water conditions than ordinary blue rams. and as a bonus as far as i know you don't get the same trouble with poor quaility inbred bolivian rams, as you do with blue rams.

Chris;-)

[Waxbillman]

right then, sod the rams, i'll just have cardinel, neon and black tetras, with a couple of those cat fish and a siamease fighter.

Matthew

[kenny]

hi paul
they are the ones i think everyone who had them when i had my fish always called them turbo snails because of the speed they moved around the tank walls

ken

[Waxbillman]

what about white cloud mountain minnows? i like them, am i able to have them with the tetras of various kinds.

Matthew

[Waxbillman]

ok then, just spoken to a bird breeding friend of mine, found out that years ago he bred all kinds of fish and had 20 odd tanks, now he just has discus. Got some good advice from him
to start with i am just going to have 6 cardinel tetras, 10 neon tetras, 6 black neons and 6 white cloud minnows.
the siamease is sadly off the list after just hearing what they are capable of. i don't know when i will get them as i think i'm going down south at the weekend

Matthew

[chris]

Hi Matthew,

i've had numerous siamese fighters and they've never been a problem. infact it's generally the other fish which are the probelm in shredding their fins to peices.

whitecloud minnows are very easy to keep and are supposed to be very easy to spawn, although i never managed it :oops: they will get on fine with the other fish in your list. i can't see why your taking the fighter off the list though?

Chris

[Waxbillman]

thanks Chris

great, thats sorted then until i get talked into buying summut else.

Matthew

[Waxbillman]

finally i have got my first fish today, 5 neon tetra, they look abit lost in the tank at the moment but i will soon be getting them some shaul mates.

Matthew:smile:

[kenny]

hi matt
is that supposed to be a joke,anyway you have plenty of compatable fish to go at now.freindly stuff like scissor tails and danios and there plenty of other tetras aswell

ken

[Waxbillman]

nar Ken, i don't joke often, :smile: the pun was unintended

Matthew