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PAUL HEARN
12-14-2005, 11:07 PM
Hello all,

Sex prediction in breeding Birds may well be possible.

Some years ago a very good friend of mine who is now a Champion Breeder and Panel Judge of Fife Fancy Canaries, chose to avoid wastage of Seed fed to his mixed collection of Foreign Finches, Quail, Grass Parakeets, Canaries and Budgies by feeding all of the Seeds seperately instead of mixtures, ie Canary Seed, Rape Seed, Hemp, Blue Maw, Niger, Sunflower Seed, White Millet, Pannicum Millet, Red Millet etc.

Over a long period of time he worked out the quantity of each Seed eaten with very little waste in each aviary at various times of the year.

When the balance was worked out he went on to breed various Species of Birds in good numbers, but with one huge difference.

I don't remember the exact figures, but for example if he bred thirty Zebra Finches then twenty five would have been hens, if he bred twenty Chinese Painted Quail then sixteen would be hens (as an example).:D

Initially we both put these unusual breeding results down to beginners luck, but a couple of years later there was an article published in Cage and Aviary Birds explaining the results of an American Lab Experiment which detailed much the same as my friend had done before.:shock:

The Lab experiment using Zebra Finches showed results as follows, when a restricted diet was provided more hens were produced, but when a more generous diet was provided, more cocks were produced.

If this was to occur in Nature, it seems that the more valuable hens are produced if there is a food shortage, but if food is plentiful then the higher number of cocks are bred.

Perhaps we as Aviculturists could use this to our advantage in producing a higher number of hen Birds in certain Species that are in danger of being lost to our Hobby?

But this could be a very risky option where Softbill Species are concerned, where the provision of Livefood is extremely important in rearing these Species of Birds.

Paul.

Pyxel
12-14-2005, 11:16 PM
That's very interesting Paul and as you say could be a help to us in further breedings. I'll definitely keep that in mind for future breeding, could do with a few cock Zebbies so I wish I had known this earlier, due to their restriced diet recently (moreso for the benefit of the Canaries in with them) - I smell a hen coming along if they're fertile. Oh well, as long as it's not another old Normal hen I won't mind so much. :roll:

Waxbillman
12-15-2005, 08:13 AM
hello Paul

thats very interesting to know. i'll have to give it a try some day

Matthew

PAUL HEARN
12-16-2005, 09:51 PM
Hi Pyxel and Matthew,

I intend on testing this theory myself with Chinese Painted Quail next year, and if it does work then I will try it with other Bird Species in order to produce more hens where needed in establishing particular Birds in UK Aviculture.

Paul.:D

kenny
12-16-2005, 10:30 PM
hi paul
very interesting mate,do you think it would go back to when zebras and budgies and the like where in areas were the food was a bit sparce so the hens cut down the number of eggs laid so that the chicks produced would not starve,nevertheless i will give it a try myself buddy

ken:-o

PAUL HEARN
12-17-2005, 11:37 PM
Hi Kenny,

I'm not sure on this mate, but I think the theory depends on food availability in the Wild determining the sex of youngsters rather than the number.

Paul.;)

chris
12-18-2005, 10:34 AM
Hi Paul,

so in theory what do i need to feed my CPQ to produce more hens than cocks next year?

i've had trouble with cocks fighting lately, although they had been raised together and showed no signs fighting one day i went up to feed them i found the one had been killed:( . the weird thing was it was the dominant one that got killed, and it always seems to be the same mutation that is a problem. the other 3 get along fine

obviously, if i could produce more hens than cocks this would reduce the problem and on the other hand it would definately help with getting a parent reared population established throughout the country

Chris;)

PAUL HEARN
12-18-2005, 02:20 PM
Hi Chris,

In the case of the American Lab experiment and my friends findings all that was needed to produce more hens than cocks was food availability.
My mate fed only the amount that they would eat each day, rather than offering food in larger quantities, in his case this was to avoid wastage and not as part of an experiment.
The American Lab experiment published in C&A some years ago found that Birds fed larger quantities bred a higher cock ratio than the Birds fed only the amount they consumed daily.

What I suggest you do is over a long period of time reduce the amount of food offered per day until you are comfortable in knowing the exact amount of food your pair of Birds will consume, and when they breed I hope the resulting young produced will have a higher ratio of hens to cocks.

The way my friend did this was to buy his seed in bags of straights rather than mixes, he then provided each seed in seperate dishes eg, White Millet, Yellow Millet, Pannicum Millet, Red Millet, Chick Crumb etc.

He did the same for his other Birds also and found that he bred far more hen Zebra Finches than cocks.

In your situation in having more than one pair of Chinese Painted Quail you could compare results with a second pair offering them more food and see if my theory is correct, or blow out of the water completely.:lol:

Paul.:D

kenny
12-18-2005, 03:36 PM
hi chris/ was the one killed a silver quail as most of the ones that ganged up on in my aviary are silvers whites etc,there is a theory that they get picked on in the wild because of there colouring./ paul/i suppose it must affect the hen producing the eggs hormones with the progency being slightly predictable i suppose its a bit like ivf where they can almost predict the sex outcome of a human

ken

chris
12-18-2005, 04:37 PM
hi kenny,

the cock that got killed was a silver, it also lacked the mask. the thing i find is that this particular mutation is more agressive than the other's out there, i can only assume he started but failed to finish the fight...

i did have another silver in there, which had a mask and this chap wasn't a problem, but the other quial did attack him so i removed him to a separate cage. i would have done the same with the other chap only there was no signs of a problem until it was too late

Chris

kenny
12-18-2005, 09:22 PM
hi chris
i found out to my cost a long time ago what vicious little " illigitemate" birds quail are

ken:lol: