eagle owls

[kenny]

hi all
did anyone else see the programme about eagle owls on bbc2 tonight,they went to a nest that is in a secret location in north yorkshire,they had ringed 23 owlets in the past few years of this pairs breeding,and because they are not native to this country they are speculating that if all the rabbits die,which they normally feed on they will start to eat hedgehogs and domestic cats as they have done in holland so they had already formulated a plan when the programme was made that it would not be illegal to cull them or break the eggs in the nest as they found one that had flown all the way to shropshire from north yorkshire and they suspect they will start to eat sheep this is 23 owlets that may or may not be equal sexes in approx 9 years ,they must be mad totally of their heads these are the same people who are making judgements about bird flu.as it was at the end of the programme they have now decided they are going to be a protected species hooray someone with a brain must have stepped in!:o

ken

[Waxbillman]

hello Ken

i too saw this programme was brilliant, i never knew they were in North Yorkshire, i have sent them an invite to come round to conisbrough to eat all the Cats:lol: that would be the best crimbo present ever.
they say they generally feed on Rabbits in this country, so farmers will like them very much, but they are very much capable of eating larger animals including livestock though sadly they said that they will not touch GG's or ET's as they are too griserly.
i would like to go a see them some day.

Matthew

[kenny]

hi matt

yeah they were deffo in north yorkshire but for obvious reasons they were not saying where,i would like to see em aswell they were real beauties,i dont see whats wrong with them eating a few moggies anyway
ken

[Waxbillman]

thats what i call divine retribution. see how those furry little Bast**** like it, ferry moggies anyway.

Matthew

[chris]

Why are they protecting a non-native species?

if anything they should be catching up all the eagle owls out there and shipping them back to their country of origin, there's no knowing what damage they may cause to the eco system when the population starts to increase!

look at the damage rabbits, cane toads and other non native species have done in Australia! will the government never learn from other's mistakes or will it keep making the same ones over and over again:evil:

some idiot brought over grey squirells a long time ago, now look at the mess we're in with the lack of native red squirrel in this country. Also ring neck parakeets, how many thousands of those are over here now that should never have been allowed to breed. people just look and think ;ah, pretty' but don't realise what 'ah pretty' now will be the death and extinction of our native species in a few years time

Chris:evil: :evil: :evil:

[chris]

not to mention mink, edible frogs, marsh frogs, bullfrogs, rats (the black ones)............................

non of these are native and look at the mess they've caused and what species of our own they've helped put on the endangered list

Chris

[Waxbillman]

your right Chris, about the others

every single mink and grey squirrial should be shot, or if you want to be hamne about the things, make them infertile which they are doing with the squirrials right now.
the thing with eagle owls is the arguement that they may have at one point many years ago been found in this Country, but both parties on each side of the arguement have different opinions.
yes escapees have survived and bred but they are conisder this abiltly to have foung thier way here naturally, if this is so then should it stay?
for the eagle owl seems to be a friend, certainly to farmers with them eating all those rabbits but like what has been said there size means they are very much capable of eating much larger creatures, especially lamb ect, if this is so and they get a taste for the meat chances are they will be shot, poisoned and trapped.

Matthew

[chris]

they said the same thing about the cane toad in Australia, that it would be of benifit by controlling pests among their crops. instead the toads destroyed the crops, bred like buggery and ate anything small enough to fit into their mouths, not to mention put many many species of amphibian on the rare and endangered list by eating them, their tadpoles and eggs.

The Eagle owl is a huge bird of prey, one of the largest wild in the country. they will compete for food with our native birds such as Kestrels, Buzzards, Falcons, Owls and compete for nest sites with these birds. When the population starts to increase the population of our native birds of prey will start to decrease, and they aren't exaclty huge as it is!

it's not our place to introduce such birds into the country. Fair enough if they are native then yes give me some solid evidence that this is true and bring them back in. BUT species that are native and now extinct cannot be re-introduced without putting back the habitat in which they live first. If we were to take a load of wolves and throw them back into the wild, would they survive? probably not as there are no food sources or sufficient woodland to support them, the same goes for the other species. Introduce them now and wreak hovok as they will push out other native species without the correct habitiat which they once lived in... before we came along and cut it all down

Chris

[Waxbillman]

your right there Chris,

man has buggered up this mighty land, turned eco-systems upside down, there has been much talk on whether the europeon wolf should be re-introduced to control the popluation of red deer. but it'll never happen though, other than fencing off large areas of land and them thats not wild.

i think the eagle should be heavily monitored to see what effect it has on the eco-system.

Matthew

[chris]

Your right that they may have been native:

"The Eurasian Eagle Owl was once resident in the UK, but was hunted to extinction during the late 19th century (NOTE - the RSPB does question this view & says that the evidence is very slim.)."

but this is just one of the concequences taken from the same site:

"The Eurasian Eagle Owl hunts predominantly at dusk & into the early night. They have occassionally been found sharing territories with Golden Eagles (http://www.pauldfrost.btinternet.co.uk/goldeneagle.html), with the eagles hunting during the day & the owls at night. They are not prepared to live peacefully with all birds of prey though, in particular goshawks (http://www.pauldfrost.btinternet.co.uk/goshawk.html). They have also been found to drive away Peregrines (http://www.pauldfrost.btinternet.co.uk/peregrine.html) from near to their nesting sites. They have been reported as regularly preying on buzzards (http://www.pauldfrost.btinternet.co.uk/cbuzzard.html), goshawks (http://www.pauldfrost.btinternet.co.uk/goshawk.html), gyrfalcons, Tawny Owls (http://www.pauldfrost.btinternet.co.uk/tawnyowl.html), Long-Eared Owls (http://www.pauldfrost.btinternet.co.uk/longearowl.html) & other small birds of prey, including their young. While other birds, such as ducks, pheasants, pigeons & crows, may be taken (often in flight), their main prey is mammals. They are able to catch prey spreading a large range of sizes, from mice & voles, through rabbits & hares, up to foxes, young sheep & roe deer."

If they can prove they were native, great birng em back, but bring back the habitat first. Same with the Wolves, these could be re-introduced as they pose little threat to us, but they will definately need the habitat back first otherwise they will move into our towns and farms, kill livestock, and possibly attack people if they move into towns. Same with Lynx, these were also native once and should be re-introduced in the future. I think the line should be drew at brown bears though....... maybe they are better not brought back at least not for some time.

Someone has re-introduced a group of Beavers back into the UK, which is great, but somehow i don't think they've put back the necessary habitat first so if they do start to breed it will cause problems with reducing the already small forest and trees we have

Think of it in the same way as building an aviary, no good in putting the birds into your garden before the aviary is built, they won't stay, probably won't live, and on the off chance they do it'll wreak havok. Whereas if the aviary is ready built and planted they'll thrive and won't be a problem

Chris

[Waxbillman]

thats very well said Chris,

we have lost our countryside now, apart from the tops of the highest mountains and peaks we don't not have a single bit of countryside left, the land anywhere you go in Britain has been influenced by man and indeed changed as have the species numbers, so wour right about the habitats that are left can barely support the the current eco-system as it is, the irony of this is the fact that man has to manage everything to stop it being lost because we have killed the natural way of live.
so yes these biggers could cause problems like they do in holland, eating buzzards!! because theres no rabbits.
but this is like the scare mongering of bird flu If, If, If. there is that many eagle owls out thier yet, so don't worry about it.

Matthew

[Gary]

You will never be able to rid the country of mink and grey squirrels as they are too numurous, and would cost a lot of money, the time would of been in the early stages,mink are a real problem now and will are only beginning to see some action against them, so if eagle owls are going to be a problem then sooner the better.

The beavers are in a fenced area, so any breeding will not effect our forests, they are part of a pilot study

[PAUL HEARN]

Hello all,

No offence, but it has been mentioned that Goshawks were once a natural Species in the UK, again the Eagle Owl has been reported as a once natural Species of the UK.
Goshawks will naturaly predate upon Sparrowhawks due to the fact they share prey Species to a degree.
Wild Boar and Pine Marten have been proposed as Species for reintroduction to the UK, but how do you see the Bustard programme on the Salisbury Plains?
Also Kite Species such as Red and Black are being reintroduced also.

My view is that certain Species deserve a reintroduction provided that their natural food source is sustainable.

Paul.

[Pyxel]

I agree Paul with the above comment, I would love to see the re-introduction of most species, provided they arn't going to cause trouble for people and to species already here, and also like you say, if their food sources are sustainable. That's not only the bird species i'd like to see either but the Mammals aswell.

[Pyxel]

How big are the birds in question, could they take a Golden? :neutral:

[chris]

Hi Paul,

it's great that they're trying, but it's doomed to failure or to have major side effects. what they are doing is siply breeding and re-releasing the species in question into existing environments. These environments aren't really big enough to support such animals in the first place, what needs to be done is for huge areas of land to be bought, and then planted up with woodland trees, shrubs etc. That way there is enough food to support the prey species, and only then will there be enough prey and habitat to support the top predators which have become extinct in the past

Chris;)

[kenny]

hi paul

i seem to have a post missing on this thread or am i dreaming

ken

[PAUL HEARN]

Hello all,

For a start the population of Eagle Owls in the UK is increasing due to accidental introductions from many years ago and not from intentional introductions similar to those in Central Europe, any spread of the Species will result from them finding a suitable breeding habitat.

Chris,

It has been noted that the hunting habits of the Eagle Owl does go on into night time, but their main prey still remains in the form of Rabbits.

Gary,

I also agree that the Grey Squirrel and to a lesser degree the Mink problem is a difficult problem to deal with, but I don't think the Mink is impossible to eradicate.

Pyxel,

I don't think the Golden Eagle has anything to worry about regarding the spread of Eagle Owls in the UK. Neither does the White Tailed Sea Eagle.

Kenny,

I'm not certain by what you mean by missing a post on this thread?

Paul.;)

[bigal47]

Hi one and all Hi chris

The Cane toads in Australia are a real problem not only for wild life but pets, kids and adults. They were brought to Australia as you said to eat cane bugs but no research was done as toad eat bugs on plants ,cane bugs live in the ground when eggs toads they do not dig for food, adult bugs live in corn stalks higher up than toads can reach and don't climb for food. Cats, rats, snakes and goats have been transplanted on islands with the same result, local breeding birds distroyed, some Australian islands have elimanated all of these from bird islands and the endangered species are recovering. What about the rabbits in Oz as well .
When will we learn to leave nature alone when it is to late as usuall and then it will not be there fault, every ones elses, and then we throw money at it to repair it.
Allan

[kenny]

hi paul

sorry mate i thought i had put a post on there but i think i switched to something else before it had been accepted sorry mate

ken

[Gary]

Paul i would be interested to hear why you think mink can be easily eradicated ? mink have been breeding in the wild since the release's in the 50's.

[Waxbillman]

Gary

all what is needed is guns and humans:-P or traps.

Matthew

[Gary]

easier said than done matt, trapping uses many man hours and as the population goes down, either they are replaced by migration or it becomes very costly to catch the last few left.

[Waxbillman]

fair enough Gary.

well i volanteer my services, give me a good gun and plenty of ammo and i will shoot every last one of these furry black ....................
thats what it need we need to eradicate all of them so our water vole population can fully recover and increase, amongst other things.

Matthew

[Gary]

sure matthew, a good idea is to make certain areas mink free, as that would be far more workable, an increase in otter numbers would also help out.

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Gary,

I understand what you mean regarding eradicating the Mink, the trapping method would be time consuming and cost a lot of Money, but surely there is a way of funding this task, we could ask the Animal Rights groups to dip into their pockets to clear up the mess they have made. Maybe not.:shock:
Serious attempts could be made by Wildlife charities in the UK if they each put money into the idea, the fact is that Mink cause damage all the way through the natural food chain, so the various charities would benefit in funding such a sceme.
And while we're at it how about getting rid of those Terrapins that are biting Ducks legs off.:x

Paul.

[chris]

terrapins can easily be removed from the population one way or another. In ponds it's a simple task of a huge sweep net, and returning the native species back to the water. In rivers the same tactic can be used, however it will be more difficult due to the size involved.

However, let's not forget that these terapins cannot reproduce in our climate as the weather simply never gets warm enough for their eggs to hatch (all going well things will stay that way....)

I will also volunteers for capture of mink, grey squirell, and various non native amphibians

Chris

[kenny]

hi chris

just shows you where these posts lead you to from eagle owls to terrapins,thats why i love this site so diverse

ken

[Gary]

Hi, paul yes trapping would be expensive, did the AR lot who released mink get in trouble? after all it is illegal to release non-natives isnt it?
I am working for my local wildlife trust, in assesing mink population in various sites in cornwall, the proble is mink are so adaptable and are not tied to watercauses like the otter, the population can be controlled, maybe enough to allow other species(water voles) to improve, as was shown in a recent study.

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi all,

Ken,

I'm sorry the thread has gone off track mate.:roll:

Chris,

The private Bird and Animal collection I worked for had Red Eared Terrapins, (sorry Ken) these Terrapins were left to roam free in the grounds, I was told by two of the keepers that in some of the hotter Summers the eggs did hatch and the young would walk from wherever they hatched to the main pond, but obviously the youngsters would never survive our Winter.

Gary,

No mate, no one was ever penalised over the release of the Mink, (sorry Ken) purely because the culprits were never found, and probably never will be.:mad:

I'm pleased to hear of your work with your local Wildlife Trust, I wish you the best of luck with the Mink project.;)
I agree with you on how adaptable they are and how they will adapt to inland habitats, a work mate told me today how his Chinchillas were killed by a Mink, and the Mink was curled up in the corner of the cage asleep first thing in the morning when he discovered the dead Chinchillas.

I think the best way of eradicating the Mink is to introduce Mongoose, and we should introduce Harpy Eagles to wipe out the Grey Squirrel. Only joking.:lol:

Paul.

[PAUL HEARN]

Hello Ken,

Back onto the Eagle Owls mate,:D I believe that no matter how the Species has become a breeding Bird in the UK, whether Naturaly or from escaped Birds, that we should give them the protection they deserve for now.
From the TV programme it seems that from Field Research here in the UK and on the Continent that Eagle Owls only breed in areas offering inland cliffs whether Natural, or from Man made quarries.
Bearing in mind the prefered nesting sites of Eagle Owls, it seems to me that we in the UK will not become the victim of thousands, or even hundreds of pairs of Eagle Owls nesting all over the UK and killing our Pet Cats and small Dogs,:roll: but the number of breeding pairs will be kept down regarding suitable breeding sites.

Paul.;)