More Babies on the way!!

[PAUL HEARN]

Hello all,

I'm very happy to say I have some more youngsters on their way into the World............................................. .. Tri-Coloured or Phantasmal Dart Frogs!!:grin: :grin:

I discovered a small patch of spawn (only the size of a ten pence coin) on the condensation tray support of the Vivarium, there are at least a dozen tiny Tadpoles developing, when the Tadpoles emerge from the spawn they will crawl onto the males back so he can carry them to the water where the metamorphosis occurs.

I will keep you posted on any progress.

Paul.:grin: :grin:

[chris]

great stuff Paul!!

what are you planning to feed the young tadpoles on? if it were me then it's a case of Algae for the first day or so, then start adding fish flake, algae tablets, and freeze dried brineshrimp as they grow larger. this has worked wonders for me in the past, however as you know i tend to work with a different species:-)

good luck, they will probably have hatched during the week

Chris:grin:

[kenny]

hi paul

sounds fascinating mate ,i dont know much about them as i have only had tropical fish in the past

ken

[jimmy]

I think this is what they are Kenny,

http://www.feathered-friends.co.uk/vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=206&stc=1

[kenny]

hi jimmy

they certainly are something special mate

ken

[jimmy]

Yea, i think its a frog :razz:

[PAUL HEARN]

Hello everyone,

Chris,

Algae and powdered Tropical Fish flake will be the first step, but as you say they are a totaly different Frog Species compared to what you are used to, Daphnia, Blood Worm etc will be the next step though.:wink:

Thanks Jimmy, the Frog pic you posted is the one.:wink:

Paul.:grin:

[chris]

Hi Paul,

ah, more predatory than i'm used to then. i would recommend newly hatched brineshrimp as the first livefood (make sure you sieve it though) before moving up onto daphnea as you have already said. i would also include some whiteworm in there if at all possible, although the larger ones will need chopping up a bit. good lcuk with them, and don't forget to take a few photo's for us to look at:grin:

can i ask what method you are using to rear the tadpoles? are they staying in the vivarium, being moved into an aquarium, or are they being housed individually in plastic cups? the latter has the advantage for rearing the maximum number of froglets but does take a bit more time and a lot more space.

you can go wrong with the lads on Dendroworld anyway

Chris:wink:

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Chris,

I'm going for the Natural method for the first time around, these Frogs are far from as predatory as some of the Dart Frog Species.

Although I believe a typo ocurred, I agree that I can't go wrong with the advice of the breeders involved at Dendroworld!

Paul.:grin:

[Waxbillman]

thats brilliant new Paul,

sounds very interesting.

Matthew

[chris]

Hi Paul,

how are they doing? any hatched out yet?

Chris;)

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Chris,

I got Taddies I got Taddies!!!:lol:

To be honest mate I didn't know until I saw you had posted here again.:roll:
So I thought I'd better check before replying.

I thought I had lost all of the Spawn a couple of days ago, I had cut away some dead Embryos from the main mass and while doing so I noticed that Tadpoles weren't moving.
They used to twitch and wriggle even if I lifted the lid of the Viv and obviously moreso when I misted the Viv and the Spawn, but I had given them up as dead because of lack of movement.
When I checked before replying to your post all that was left of the Spawn was one dead Embryo and one dead Tadpole, anyway after checking the water area I found one Tadpole.:lol: I just hope I spot more over the next couple of days, in a way I'm disappointed in missing the male Frog carrying the Tads to the water area, but happy that I have at least one Tadpole from my first Spawning!

I will keep you updated.

Paul.:D

[chris]

Nice one paul!

i also have trouble with the dead embryo when raising spawn, the most common reasons are lack of oxygen, and/or fungal infection. this can usually be overcome by adding a drop or two of Methylene Blue to the water and an air stone. The other main problem with losses is that many eggs never get fertilised so are doomed from the start. Don't worry about it anyway, in nature only one or two frogs ever make it to maturity from a clump of spawn, so your doing ok

Chris;)

[PAUL HEARN]

Cheers Chris,

The main problem with Dart Frogs is that they Spawn out of water and then carry the Tadpoles to water when they hatch, so the fungal problem can only be cured by removal of infertile Eggs or dead Emryos.:-| I suppose I could try the Methylene Blue method by using it in the water I use to mist the Viv.:roll: I will check out this theory with the Dendroworld chaps and ladies.;)

I do realise I'm risking a few losses by going down the Natural route, but thats the way I like to do things Bird wise, so I thought I would try the same with the Frogs, I just hope I end up with a few Frogletts later on.
But if things don't go to plan, then petri dish and and small containers it is next time.

Paul.:D

[chris]

Hi Paul,

the methlyene blue treatment i have used on fish eggs, and newt eggs in the past to prevent fungus. it doesn't work 100% but it definately reduces the number and spread of fungal infections. It won't harm the frogs/tadpoles either, infact i think i recall one of the threads on Dendroworld mentioning the use of methlyene blue to treat adult frogs for one thing or another.

good luck, and try to get a few photos if you can i'd love to see them!

Chris;)

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Chris,

Thanks again for the info on Methylene Blue,;) as for the photos of the Tadpoles, I have a job seeing them let alone taking photos.:lol:

I will see what I can do if and when they grow on.

Paul.:D

[PAUL HEARN]

Hello Chris,

Guess what?
I've got another mass of Spawn from the Tri-Colours,:lol: again it is placed on the condensation tray support, I know they have been holding back regarding breeding until now but I think I have been using too large a heatmat under the Vivarium because they have chosen to breed when the colder weather has affected the temperature in the Vivarium. Also the food source has decreased (due to the colder weather) I know this is the reverse of what we are used too with Birds, but I think my feeding regime was far too generous in the past also.

When I set up the new larger Viv for the Tri-Colours, I intend on heating it using an internal Aquarist Fish tank heater below the water level, along with a mister head on the water outlet from the internal filter, this combination should increase the humidity level in the Viv allowing even less interference from manual misting.

I hope to find an even finer grade of gravel for lining the water area of the new Viv, possibly sand if it is Lime free, and then Peat lined in areas as I have now?
Obviously I will limit the adult Frogs future access to food too, this is one important tip I have ignored until now.
But I'm not too impressed by the Algae growth in the water area I have right now.:| I was hoping the Algae levels would have increased far more by now,:( so I will need to increase the lighting I have presently in the new Viv also, probably double?

Anyway I will keep you posted on the first and second batch as they progress.

Later, Paul.:D

[Waxbillman]

well done Paul!!

what will you do with all the offspring?

Matthew

[chris]

Hi Matthew, hopefully trade a few for a leopard gecko or two:lol: :lol: :lol:

Paul,

good luck with the second round, the temperature could well have been what caused a lack of hatching in your previous batch. While too cold a temperature usually only slows down the hatch rate, if it gets that bit too warm it will kill the embryos and give 0% hatch rate.

for the humidity levels, these misters? would they be the 'foggers' that i have seen. Ash has one of these and uses it with his anoles, treefrogs and firebellies. great little thing that you put in the water and when submerged it vapourises the water into a fine mist/fog that can take the humidity upto 100%!!! they only need to be on for and hour once or twice a day i think, but it does reduce the water level so keep your eye on it.

To increase algae growth, the best results i've had for algae are actually with an ordinary light bulb, not full spectrum tubes or anything like that. However since they generate heat i'd suggest only a 25watt bulb as this won't be able to heat the entire vivarium so shouldn't affect the overall temperature.

if you choose to use full specturm lighting, i'd suggest 2 arcadia tube the length of your vivarium. One of which can be specific for frogs (i've seen this one but can't think the name) and the other i'd suggest 'power glo' as the lightout put is huge for the watts it uses, fantastic for plants.

if your thinking of making a permanent aquatic area in the vivarium in this new viv you mention, i would suggest sealing off half the tank with a sheet of glass and aquarium sealant to the required depth ( best probably 4-6 inches deep) place the heater at the far (deep) end with a heater guard on it to protect the frogs from gettng burned. Also an air pump linked up to a 'bubble up sponge filter' will keep the water nice and clean and reduce the amount of times it needs changing. This type of filter i have used on fish fry and tadpoles before, it's not powerfull enought to suck up the tadpoles so nothing to worry about, however in my experience with tadpoles it will need cleaning every day (especially if you have around 200 of the buggers!:lol: ). The fogger/mister will be best placed at the deep end also, with the botom half buried in gravel/sand. you can then landscape the water area using rocks and slate to hold back the gravel/sand upto the land area.

Good Luck!

Chris

[kenny]

hi chris

thats all fascinating stuff mate ,i love to learn about stuf i have never had the pleasure of doing myself after all our brains are just sponges to mop all the stuff like that up

ken

[PAUL HEARN]

Hello all,

Hi Matthew,

The Frog Species we are talking about here is the Zebra Finch of the Amphibian World, but they are surprisingly addictive, to the point that some experienced breeders of Dart Frogs don't want to stop keeping them.:D

Obviously there is a market out there for those who wish to swap these Frogs for Leopard Gecko's.:lol:

Apart from Chris,I know at least two local Reptile/Amphibian etc Dealers who would be interested in buying the Froglets.

Hi Chris,

The previous batch of Spawn doesn't seem to have suffered from too a high loss rate at the moment, but time will tell, the new mass of Spawn seems to have only one infertile egg which I removed immediately this time.

The mister idea I have isn't a Fogger, but I'm working on an idea to produce a mister using only the water area of the Viv with very little water loss, it doesn't involve heat as the Fogger does, I will let you know more when I work out if my idea is possible.;)

I think I have fixed the Algae problem by including various Plant matter from my Aquarium for the benefit of the Tadpoles, I also have access to Algae from outside sources from my Native Frog pools.

Regarding the water area, heating and filtration, the design I have in mind will not require too frequent cleaning and will be under the gravel level which will not affect Tadpoles in the water area.

I will post more details on the design later.

Paul.;)

[kenny]

hi paul

really interesting mate,keep the news coming its like being an expectant father.as i have said before its great to hear about stuff that you haven`t kept yourself

ken

[Waxbillman]

thats great, how much do this froglets fetch?

can you make poison darts from them?

Matthew

[kenny]

trust you have the gypos come back again?

[Waxbillman]

:lol: don't tempt me Ken

Matt

[PAUL HEARN]

:lol: Hi Ken and Matthew,

Ken,

I'm pleased this is of interest to others who don't keep them, I hope if you realise just how easy they are to care for I might interest you enough to give them a try.:D

Matthew,

The price of these Frogs ranges from as little as £10-£15 each from breeders up to around £20-£30 each from Herp Dealers.
Fortunately these Frogs lose their toxins when bred or even kept in captivity over a certain period from Wild caught specimens.

Here is the link to Dendroworld www.dendroworld.co.uk/forum (http://www.dendroworld.co.uk/forum) which is the UK's only specific Dart Frog Website, if you take a look you will see how extremely popular it is and it only started in January this year.:shock:

Paul.:D

[Waxbillman]

thats ok, i would love a vivarium with summut like that in but i just don't have the room.

they sound very reasonable to me price wise. i can't believe theres so much interest, tobe honest i would know where to buy owt.

Matthew

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Matthew,

Again thats where Dendroworld comes into it, there are breeders of these Frogs all over the UK and there are more closer to you than are to me.
A lot of the equipment stockists seem to be higher up the Country too, but regarding room for a Viv, just put your clock radio on the floor and hey presto room for a Viv.:lol:

Paul.:D

[Waxbillman]

lol, well i have a perfect position for it in my room, but theres no way i hell i'm allowed to

Matthew

[chris]

Hi Matthew,

Dart frogs are suprisingly cheap to keep in the way of electrics and housing. The vivarium could be either a plastic one with sliding doors, a glass with sliding doors, or even a fish tank with a mesh lid. this costs around £30 upwards for the tank. The furnishings are simple, most people i know use a mix of sterile compost (microwave job) or expanding peat which can be bought from most pet shops. Then just add a layer of moss over the top of this. The moss can be bought from a shop ready to use, or you could rake some out of the lawn and sterilise it with boiing water (i do this and it works great). the other thing needed will be a water bowl, the resin cast ones are best to use as they are shallow and easy for the frogs to get in/out of. these cost around £5 upwards.

Heating is really easy, a heat matt that covers 2/3 of the tank under the tank, Or taped to the back of the tank to provide heat, in which case it will be the full lenght of the tank. These run on very little electricity, mine is about 2 foot long, and uses only 28 watts or so! they are fairly cheap aswell at £12 upwards depending on size (the one i mention is £20 i think). Finally a light source, this is simply an arcadia starter unit and a full spectrum tube, the unit is £25 and the lights/tube are around £8 upward depending on size and quality. these have a life time of about a year, and again use very little electricity ( my 12" tube runs on 8 watts, and is bloody bright!)

As for feeding, Fruitfly, micro crickets, white worm, springtails are what most feed on, there are many more foods than this i just can't think of them all. These come in either tubs or in culture form. In a culture all that is required is a bit of warmth and some food and the livefood comes free, a tub of micro crickets costs around £2, and contains around 500 hatchling crickets, a slice of carrot wil keep them going untill all are fed. you will need a powder/liquid suplement to 'dust' the livefood with before feeding to the frogs as this sorts out the calcium/phosphurous ratio in their diet, a tub costs around £5, and lasts forever!

Really, the overall cost to get started will be in the regions of £100 or less depending on how many of the extras you buy. Then just add frogs and food, and after that they won't cost much at all.

Hopefully i've tempted you into trying them out, i'm seasonal with mine as i only really rear and release native species as i lack a permanent space to house any dart frogs in.... yet:twisted:

Paul can probably tell you more as he has the experience with dart frogs, whereas i only know about natives and a few others really

Chris:wink:

[Waxbillman]

hello Chris,

it certainly is very tempting, though i don't think i would have the time at the moment.

Matthew