Vitelline Masked Weavers

[chris]

Hi all,

well here's some pics of the 4 i bought on saturday:

[Waxbillman]

hello Chris,

grand birds you've got there

Matthew

[chris]

the first photo shows the cock weaver and the hen.

the second shows the cock weaver, the hen in the middle, and a juvenile weaver on the far right.

the final photo shows both juvenile weavers with the hen on the far right.

notice how the hen is more white on the breast, whereas the juveniles have more yellow on the shoulder/breast area. possibly 2 juvenile cocks just coming into colour, or just what juveniles happen to look like but i wil know in a few months either way

Chris:wink:

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Chris,

Very Birds mate, I hope at least one of the youngsters moult into adult hen plumage next year.

Paul.:grin:

[chris]

Hi all,

after having a good look at both of the cock weavers i have, i feel confident i can tell each apart due to slight differences in colour on the eyes and breast. due to this i have now introduce the masked weaver i already had to the 4, and have opened the bob hole to let them out into the aviary. 3 of em have gone out but the other 2 don't know what the hole is for!

anyway, the greensinger has been giving them a bit of grief, i will see how it goes but i think i may have to remove him:neutral:

Chris:wink:

[Waxbillman]

hello Chris

why don't you ring all the weavers, to save confusion?

i hope your greensinger calms down.

Matthew

[chris]

Hi Matthew,

i intend to:) , need to get some rings first though and i'm not sure of the size they should be as their legs are quite well built for there size

Chris

[kenny]

hi chris

very nice birds you have there mate ,not a great age on them either by the looks of things.hughes should be able to sort you out with the ring size i am sure

ken

[dave85]

hey chris,

After comparing your pictures to the one i have of the 2 pairs im getting,

They are different - the cocks heads have black further back than yours - help me identify them please? the hens look similar.

Thanks
Dave

[chris]

Hi Dave,

they look like village weavers to me mate, give me ten minutes and i'll check it out and give you a definite answer

Chris:wink:

[dave85]

hey chris,

ive been trauling the net to find what they are and the closest i can find is lesser masked weaver?

whats your expert opinion?

get back soon

thanks
Dave

[chris]

have a look at this and see what you think:

http://www.camacdonald.com/birding/Black-headedOriole(PJ).jpg

Black Headed Weaver, village weavers have red eyes and a few other minor differences to what you have, this is the closest i have got so far.

i reckon it's almost definately a member of the Ploceus genus given the overall look and size of the bird, this will round things up for you a bit if you want to try and identify it for yourself. the only probelm is is that there aren't many weaver photos, or even any of certain species so you could have a hard job finding it.

Chris

[chris]

Hi Dave,

it's definately not a lesser masked weaver, if you lok at the masks on yor birds it extends all over the head region, if i remember rightly lesser masked weavers only have the mask on the front of the face and the rest of the head is yellow

check the link out in the previous postand let me know what you think

Chris:wink:

[dave85]

hey chris,

Well from the picture i posted, does it appear all the weavers are same species? so i can breed a colony up from them?

they look very similar - ive asked him what type they are so hopefully he'll clear it up? the thing that bugs me is that ive seen other pictures of black headed weavers and they appear different to the one you have posted?

See if you can find out more please? ive searched abit but unsure if i looked in right place?

Thanks
Dave

[chris]

Hi Dave,

the main probelm is there isn't a species known as the 'black masked weaver', sounds like someone has mislabelled the species to me. Oddbirds has told me they are the same birds as i have, and they are clearly not. i've done an interent search for "black masked weavers" and nothing comes up, they aren't even on the weaver species list:neutral:

they do appear to be all the same species (the birds in the photo) so you should be able to get a colony going from those 2 pairs. what i would do is keep each pair separate and breed them in pairs so you know the exact parents of the young you breed. you can then take young of the oposite sexes from each pair to make up more unrelated pairs and this should get you a decent sized breeding colony going, and more importantly there will be no in-breeding. all going well if you can breed a few of them next year you'll have plenty of unrelated pairs for the year after and should have your colony by then.

here's the weaver species list:

http://www.hbw.com/ibc/phtml/familia.phtml?idFamilia=191

i've checked oput most of the ones on there and have posted the closest match i can find. it could take a while to identify them correctly as it took me a year!!

Chris:wink:

[chris]

hi dave,

forget that photo i posted, it's not even the right species.... what can i say, stupid google search engine!!!:-x

i'm stumped now, i'll keep looking though

Chris

[dave85]

Ploceus melanocephalus - black headed weaver

also with this name they are called - Yellow-backed Weaver

:S i will be

Anyone who wishs to help please do so

Thnaks
Dave

[chris]

BINGO!!!!

http://perso.wanadoo.es/sghnornitoloxia/IMAXES_GAL_ORNITO/Ploceus_melanocephala.jpg

Ploceus melanocephala AKA black headed weaver

:grin: :grin: :grin:

Chris:wink:

[chris]

jump in my grave as quick?:lol: :lol: :lol:

[dave85]

http://www.finerareprints.com/vol_birds_butler2.html

Few links to a site with images - drawings though but good ones

[PAUL HEARN]

Hello Chris and Dave,

I'm late as usual on this one,:roll: it seems Chris has found the closest match so far.
But Dave (you jammy git, good on you for getting your hands on something unusual:D ) if you can come up with a size comparison with another Bird Species this should help also with identifying the Species you have there.

At a quick glance if you had only one cock displaying an entirely black head, you would be forgiven for thinking you had a Bird showing slight Melanism, but to have two,:shock: well done mate!

Chris, I hope you don't mind me proposing another approach for Dave to breeding from his two pairs, but how about pairing one cock to the two hens, and then pair the other cock to any resulting young hens the following year?
I do realise that Laura's Grenadiers have produced far more cocks than hens in the last two years, but I do have an idea on how to rectify this situation, which is backed up by a friends breeding results and experimental breedings under Scientific studies in the US, (I will explain more on a new thread).

Paul.;)

[Waxbillman]

hello Dave

great birds you have there.

Paul

i am interested in hearing your theory.

Matthew

[dave85]

Thanks all certainly thats is a very close image but well see when i get them and take lots more pictures.

Are they going to be a pain in the ass to get more of then?

i think ill breed with the perfect cock and build the tatty headed one up and may try pairing one cock for a round to them and then swapping cocks to get 2 lots of youngsters, which will be genetically different so then i may have more pairs plus i may let some go if im successful?

Thanks
Dave

[laurab]

I an very interested in your theory Paul.

[dave85]

hi all,

This is the diet the weavers have been on and this what they were mixed with -

they are in a mixed aviary of other weavers siskins chaffinches green finches bengalese zebs canarys sparrows quails,goldfinches.etc. no problems at all.
i feed all my birds on strait canary seed with rape, green leaf veg,fat balls,boiled eggs,boiled rice.i take them off the fat balls in spring and increase the greens.

Thanks
Dave

[PAUL HEARN]

Hello all,
Dave,

Yes it may be difficult in finding more of these Birds, but then again you never know what will come in next year?;-)
Are you telling us that Plain Canary and Rape seed are the only seeds your Birds are fed??:???:

Matthew and Laura,

I will explain more on my theory in another thread.;-)

Paul.

[dave85]

hey paul,

Thats the diet the guy feeds all his birds not mine.

Also hes said he has these on offer too? hes selling as job lot but i said im interested in these, so what do you think?

1 extra pair black headed weavers..20 pounds
spotted backed weaver 15 pounds
black hd nun 15 pounds....if sold seperate

Thanks
Dave

[PAUL HEARN]

Hello Dave,

As discussed earlier, I would be interested in the hen Black Headed Nun for myself, try to strike a deal on all three pairs of Black Headed Weavers and give the Spotted Backed Weaver a miss.

Paul.;-)

[chris]

Hi Dave,

i'd get the extra pair(s) of black headed weavers if at all possible, your unlikely to come by more of them any time soon so best get them while the going is good. with 3 pairs you should easily be able to maintain unrelated breeding colonies/pairs.

as for the spotted backed weaver, i agree with Paul give it a miss, unless your certain you can find more of these birds. another thing, if you do get it don't house it with the black headed weavers as they are the same family and will hybridise

Definately change the diet!!!! that's no where near good enough from what you've said they were fed on. i'd mixed up a pot with one part mixed canary and one part foreign finch, and one part bogena softfood. alternatively offer all 3 in separate dishes. eggfood is a good addition if they will eat it, i find mine only eat fresh homemade eggfood. and definately get some mealworms in there at least, if not waxworm and fruit fly aswell

Chris;-)

[dave85]

hey all,

im still getting the weavers all 3 pairs of them this week hopefully! if im not let down again!

thanks
Dave

[Waxbillman]

great!, fingers crossed mate.

Matthew

[chris]

Hi all,

just a photo of one of the nests one of the cock vitteline weavers has built. the other nest is about 2 inches off the floor in the conifer but i can't get a clear shot at it.

Chris:wink:

[kenny]

hi chris
excellent mate,it always amazes me that they can build a structure better put together than the millenium dome with just a beak and 2 feet..... amazing!

ken

[Waxbillman]

great, fingers crossed, that the hens get interested

Matthew

[laurab]

Nice one! ;-)

[chris]

Hi All,

i very much doubt the vitellines will breed at all this year, as i've been had again:evil:

the so called 'family group' i bought are about as much of a foursome as the so called 'pair' i bought in the first place. the 2 juveniles are not the same species as the adult hen. this also makes me question whether the hen i have is even a vitelline as it does look more like ploceus intermedius if i've spelt it right, only the eyes are black and not white. non of this is helped by the fact that there is bugger all in the way of reliable information and photos regarding weavers on the internet.

i've got 3 cocks weaving away like mad and not one ********* hen of the same species

i bet it's the same **** of a breeder that sold the 'family' to ponderosa as that sold the 'pair' to my local

wouldn't be as bad if we didn't have an import ban as i'd simply order a batch.........

i would show the photos showing the clear differences between the 'juveniles' and the 'hen' that are now aparent since the moult however my computer doesn't want to see the camera when i plug it in so i can't even upload the photos!!!

Chris:evil: :evil: :evil:

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Chris,

That is very bad news mate,:-( things don't look too grand regarding the Weaver and Whydah project do they, and all because of some lying ******* moving on birds they don't want by being dishonest.:-x

I hope you find the hens you need eventually and that you get results somewhere near those of Lauras, the sad thing is that you can bet any amount of money that there are countless hen Weavers in mixed collections all over the Country that belong to the pretty mixed aviary brigade.:-(

I can guarantee that if I hear of any Weaver hens you need I will let you know ASAP.

Good luck mate, Paul.;)

[kenny]

hi chris
have you got this link mate.
ken


http://www.mangoverde.com/wbg/fam/fam192.html

[Waxbillman]

terrible news Chris,

though as you know, there may be some pairs coming to you later this year.

Matthew

[chris]

Hi Kenny,

thanks for the link, i did have a link to that site but lost it a while ago:)

i've now identified the white bellied hen as a lesser masked weaver hen, or at least it's close to. god only knows what the other 2 hens are, probably some sort of hybrids. i have also found a photo of a hen vitelline masked weaver in the link from kenny, and it looks nothing like either of the hens i have which are far far lighter in colour:evil: :cry:


now the ultimate dillema, i have 5 different species of weaver, only certain with pairs of napoleon so those i will definately be keeping. however what do i do with the other 4 species as there is no way i can possibly manage to pair up all of them in the current situation let alone build the individual aviaries needed to breed them all.

when is the import ban due to be lifted/extended? i could do with something to look forward to at least

Chris:-|

[kenny]

Hi Paul
First Of All I Would Sue The Person Who Sold You Them In The First Place For Not Being As Advertized,

Ken

[chris]

Hi All,

i'm rather confused at the moment now regarding the weavers. one photo from a reliable source on the nets says that my hens aren't vitellines, yet another i have comeacross elsewhere shows what is labelled as masked weavers. the cock is clearly a vitelline and the hens look exactly like my 2 so called juveniles, or were. the adult hen isn't a vitelline either way, and if there was any truth is the 2 juveniles being bred from the adult pair i bought that would explain the similarity to the one photo, but would also make the buggers hybrids which means the chances are they're infertile so useless....

the original cock bird i have has biult one nest off the roof which has been there a week and as of yet there is no interest from the hens in there. he is currently building another off the roof out of the elephant grasses i placed in earlier this week. if they don't breed this year then i really can't see me keeping them.

the other problem is they're mixed with the napoleon weavers and i'm damn sure they are the reason the napoleons seem to have zero interest in breeding which just adds to the reasons of why to get rid of the 'vitellines'.

at some point i might be dividing the aviary again to give 3 6 foot flights so all species can be housed separate, this depends on whether the vitelines breed or not. if not i could easily sell the lot and get hold of more napoleons... bigger gene pool just incase the worst happens and this import ban never lifts

:-? chris

[kenny]

hi chris
thats a real shame as i know you wanted to breed the vittalines,but maybe you may be better off with the bigger gene pool,especially if the ones you have may turn out to be hybrids thats a sickener mate


ken