Euplectes afer

[chris]

Hi,

i'm hoping someone can give me an answert to this as it's got me confused

Euplectes afer, what bird is it? i've checked it out on google and i've found that there are at least 3 different weavers that have the same scientific name, one of which i have, the other is a yellow crowned bishop, and the 3rd i don't even know!

the species has many different common names and colours, are these different mutations of the same species meaning golden bishops, yellow crowned bishops, napolean weavers are all the SAME bird, could they be subspecies of each other that no one has bothered to classify as anything other than "Euplectes afer", or are they completely different species

i'll show you what i mean:

http://www.ptaki.voltronik.pl/ptaki/%5Ewiklacz_ognisty.jpg

http://www.camacdonald.com/birding/Yellow-crownedBishop(RE).jpg

http://www.geonschrijver.nl/vogels/77142.jpg

all of the above birds are given the name euplectes afer yet they are all clearly different. all i know is that this is making my life damn difficult to get more of the golden bishops i have!

maybe some of us should go on a trip to africa, get a few feather samples of each species and classify them by DNA, then determine whether they need a new subspecies name added on the end of euplectes afer to solve my problem!

anyone got any insight please?

Chris

[Waxbillman]

hello Chris,
well thats strange, i have a poster with a Napoleon weever on it, also known as the yellow crowned bishop with its latin name being Euplectes afer. may be you are right in saying that the other birds are sub-species, as the yellow-crowned weaver is said to have 3 sub-species, and 1 nominate species.

maybe i've confused you! i bet that Paul will know, he knows everything.

matthew

[chris]

Hi matthew,

i understand what you mean. that would mean that the birds pictured are all euplectes afer, but they should also have a 3rd name after this to define between the subspecies if this were true.

paul, since you know everything:grin: what do you think?

anyone else please feel free to comment

Chris:wink:

[chris]

this just gets better........

i've just checked out my "golden palm weaver" and it turns out to be Ploceus subaureus aka the africa yellow/golden weaver. it was the red eyes that mine has that distinguished from the golden palm weaver (this had me in doubt about what i was anyway)http://www.birdinggermany.de/images/kosi_bay_yellow_weaver_5.JPG

to add to this i only found out last week that my so called lesser masked weaver is infact the half masked weaver: Ploceus velatus !
http://geonews.net/assets/images/maskenweber01.jpg now i've had a long hard look at the net (again) this time using the scientific names i'm certain of at least 2 of the weaver species i have.

if anyone tells me different about the weaver species i have i'm gonna cry:roll:

now we just need to find out whats what with the golden bishops, otherwise i'll be going over to africa to slap the scientists hat labeled these weavers

2 down 1 to go!

Chris:neutral:

[kenny]

hi chris,

euplectes. afra...........napolean weaver or yellow crowned or golden bishop.

euplectes progne............long tailed whydah or widow bird

euplectes macrourus.............yellow mantled whydah

euplectes ardens ..................red collared whydah

euplectes laticauda...............red naped whydah

euplectes hordeacea.................crimson crowned bishop

euplectes orix...................red bishop

ken

[chris]

Hi ,

i'm thinking it would be best to pick just the one weaver species and stick to it for serious breeding. this was an idea of mine a while back, but my dad seems to like the idea and is puching me into choosing the one species. it's going to be a hard decision as i would love to keep all of em, but with university next year or the year after (gap year possibly) and my plans to emmigrate upon leaving uni, it would seem more logical to just have the one species.

my decision will be based on whatever hens show up at stafford, my prefered choice is the half masked weaver. but if i don't find any hens by then it will most likely be the golden bishops.

Chris:neutral:

[Waxbillman]

well good luck what ever you decide mate,

matthew

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Chris,

Kenny has identified correctly two of the Weavers in your original post, the first being the Crimson Crowned Bishop/Weaver or Black Winged Red Bishop Euplectes Hordeacea, the third being the Napolean, Yellow Crowned or Golden Bishop/Weaver.
The second in your post is killing my head mate:shock:, I know it but so far I'm failing miserably to remember the name:?.
Ask me a simple question like who has the initials G,G. and I hope he wins the Big One all to himself on the National Lottery, but on his way to collect his Cheque from Dale Winton, he Spontaneously Combusts Live on Air when I have set the video so I can watch it time and time again?:lol:

I know someone who has most of the African Weaver Species in a couple of Field Guides, I will let you know the Common and Scientific names of the Weavers you have posted in the next week.

Paul.;)

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Matthew and Chris,

I don't know everything, I can only wish.:roll:

Paul.:lol:

[laurab]

Hi all

have a look at this link http://www.hbw.com/ibc/phtml/familia.phtml?idFamilia=191

Not too sure if i have just confused matters even more :?

[kenny]

hi laura

that lots making my head spin.in the words of mary wolstencrafte shelley you have created a monster:grin:
ken

[chris]

Hi all

the mystery is finally solved. the golden bishop and yellow crowned bishop are subspecies of each other which is why they both share the same scientific name. however this i had already guessed was the case but doesn't solve the problem of distinguishing between the 2 species based on the scientific name.... untill i came across a poster full of weavers at Ponderosa aviaries.

the golden bishop or Napoleon weaver is know as Euplectes Afer Afer

the yellow crowned bishop is know as Euplectes AferTaha

Chris:wink:

[chris]

Hi All,

Still having no luck in breeding from these lot. i now have 2 cocks in ful colour and neiter seem interested in weaving! the only sings of weaving are from where they've gone up to some grasses pushed through the mesh and had a play with it weaving into the mesh where it is. no nests... however i have noticed one of the hens taking interest in a nest basket but if the cocks aren't interested in her it makes no real difference.

i have just done a bit of a read on their wild habitat and have had some references to nesting over water, and on marsh land. looks like i might have to build a pond! there was also a mention that they breed during the rainy season and may move into woodlands if the rain provides for it. i wonder if an upturned sprinklet on the roof would suffice for a rainy season? the only problem will be that i'll have to move the quail.

i', going to have a look at the aviary and see if i can draw up a way for getting a pond in somewhere, might have to split the aviary and then put the pond in wherever the napoleons go.

Laura,

any tips as they're all bishops so shouldn't be too different? they're on livefoods, waxbill mix, softfood, fruit and soaked seeds along with cuttlefish and grit. grasses are provided but no interest so i'm rather stumped besides the pond option

looks like there are 4 subspecies and not just the 2 also E. a. afer - E. a. ladoensis - E. a. strictus - E. a. taha


chris

[laurab]

Hi Chris

I have also read about breeding when the rainy season sets in and also the preference to nesting near water but it was the introduction of live food that got mine going; as you are already providing plenty of that I can't suggest anything else.

What other species are they housed with?

[chris]

Hi Laura,

apart from the CPQ, a few red headed finches and a silverbill, nothing. at first i suspected it was the vitelline weaver's chasing that was putting them off however the vitellines are no longer in there and so far they've done sod all. the other birds don't bother them one bit either

thanks, Chris

[laurab]

seems the ideal set-up - it's a mystery :confused:

[chris]

i've just been up in the rain and the cock was singing so maybe they are interested but need a bit more persuading first. i can get a pond in but it means moving the biggest log in there which isn't going to be easy, and a lot of plants ontop. still i suppose once the pond in i can replace the elephant grasses with reeds, and probably get a few of the current grasses in around the edges

Chris

[kenny]

hi chris
looks like you have talked yourself into doing it then!


ken8)

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Chris,

In the past I have found that using a garden hose to spray my aviaries housing African, Asian and South American birds is enough to spur some of them into breeding activity.

But as Laura mentioned the extra availability of Livefood is also of great importance, if you were to introduce seeding Grasses this should also condition your Weavers into breeding too.

If you think about it the rainy season will encourage the growth of Grasses which in turn will encourage the Livefood also.

Paul.;)

[chris]

Hi Paul,

currently the aviary gets a good spray everyday to water the plants, then i spray the leaves and birds to an extent also ontop. as for seeding grasses, they're getting fresh semi ripe red millet sprays aswell and the other grasses with and without seeds that go in for nesting material.

i'd have thought the site of another cock in full breeding plumage would be enough to encourage some competition between them for nests etc. but so far nothing at all.

the pond seems to be the only thing missing

Chris:-?

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Chris,

It seems that the time difference between the African and UK Summer is the main reason for the lack of breeding activity during our warmer months, if you take note of any Weaver or Whydah breeding in the UK they usually take place during the latter months of our UK Summer.

But if the water area is the answer then you may be surprised by how small this area needs to be?

A small area of water under suitable nesting cover may be enough to encourage your Weavers to nest, maybe using the largest Cat litter trays could be enough?

Paul.;-)

[chris]

Hi Paul,

i have thought of that however i'd need around 10 of them to house all the reeds and everything else. the vitelline weavers were quite happy to build nests all year round, yet i've had nothing at all from the bishops. from what i've read they're supposed to build loads of nests so something aint quite right

Chris

[chris]

I'm not going to get too excited just yet, however the 2 cock bishops are now becoming territorial toward each other and displaying which i have never seen from either until today. also i've noticed that someone has been weaving grass around the holy bush branchs i placed over the water bucket and reeds earlier this week, far from a nest but it's definately a start in the right direction. the pond is on hold anyway as one of the CPQ hens has decided to build a nest right where i was going to stick it... ah well

finger's crossed

Chris;)

[Waxbillman]

sounds promising Chris

fingers crossed

Matthew

[kenny]

nice one chris
good luck mate!

ken:wink:

[PAUL HEARN]

Hi Chris,

I'm pleased that the Napoleans are finally showing signs of breeding activity I hope all goes well for you,;) is there any way you can identify both of the cocks?
The reason I ask is because I think it would help toward your chances of breeding if only one cock remains in the breeding aviary.

Also regarding the pond in your aviary, would a wheel cover for a Honda CRV be of any use to you to sink into the ground?

Paul.

[chris]

Hi Paul,

yes i can differentiate between the 2 cocks as one has 2 very small bits of white on the underside where he is yet to cover up. the 3rd cock is actually going out of breeding plumage:???: but then he has been in a bit of limbo between the 2 since i bought him in march! there are 4 hens in the aviary with the cocks, no agression toward or from the cock going into eclipse and not alot between the 2 in full breeding plumage just a bit of displaying. i think it may be benifical at least for now to have the 2 cocks in there to drive the hens into condition faster, and also as stimulation for each other to build more and better nests. if the second cock becomes a problem if any breeding occurs then i'll remove one.

as for the pond, i've worked out it's only going to cost just over £5 to get the liner i need to make a 6' x 3' pond, 6 inches deep. plenty of space then for a reed bed and overhanging branches/plants, so that's what i'm going for although the actual size when i build it will probably be a touch smaller

Chris;)